Outline for Crusader II

T

TargetPractice

Guest
A few ideas:

1. Call the 'Stealth' armor 'Covert', instead. It meshes better with 'Assault' and 'Standard' to my ears.

2. If the player is at full health, have the Cametron (or the Cametron v2, if it exists) follow the player around in a map, concealing itself if the player comes near it or looks at it(you could spot it shifting back if the player's view region suddenly overlaps its location while it's shifting back.) When the player is weakened (or engaged) in a major fight, have it take attack at that point in time. (Or, if the player gets surrounded by- or is followed by- 3-4 of them in a group, have them spread out, in a circle, get one to pull the player into the circle[evasive movements, backing up], then have them all unshift in an ambush.)

If humor is allowed in Crusader II, have it reference Metal Gear Solid by impersonating a large crate while following the player. (Works best in warehouses.)

3. Maybe the climax of the anime movie 'Jin-Roh' (in the sewers) could provide inspiration on how the assault armor should act and play?

And a question:

4. How will grenade throwing work? If it's possible, how can the player vary the force with which he throws it?
 
OP
OP
S

Shadowen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
I really, really, really like that Cametron idea.  One can rarely have too many pop culture references.

Grenade throwing would be similar to other shooters.  Note that I expect the perspective of this game would have more in common with Tomb Raider or Oni than the original Crusader games.

As a nod to the original, there would of course be newscasts.  While I would prefer rendered cinematics for most of the movies, I think for flavor I'd like to see the news presented in glorious FMV.  It would make it easier to poke fun at modern news organizations.
 

Keenan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 24, 2005
Location
Omaha, Nebraska, USA
They revived C&C... and they went all-out on that. And now it's a huge success.

We just have to support all these old EA/Origin series by buying those games and trying to make EA hear our voices. If EA were to do something new with Crusader, it'd most likely be a port... like a download of No Remorse on XBOX Live for $10 or something.
 
OP
OP
S

Shadowen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
The main reason I'd prefer rendered cinematics (excepting, of course, the newscasts) is costuming.  The game I see has a lot of Silencer(s) being shown in the movies, as opposed to the FPS perspective of the movies in the other games.  When you look at those costumes as drawn or rendered, they're cool.  Outside of that...  "Nice movies, but your lack of a skilled clothier is showing."
 

Keenan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 24, 2005
Location
Omaha, Nebraska, USA
Well, you gotta keep in mind they filmed those cutscenes in late-'94. And the budget was only $150,000 I believe.

I personally liked the costumes! I wish a friend of mine would sell me the outfit he owns from No Remorse. :)
 
OP
OP
S

Shadowen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Perhaps.  But nonetheless, we've only ever seen, in official visuals, CG representations of the Silencer.  I'm not sure I'd want to see it in real life, even given the awesomeness of stormtroopers/clonetroopers and Imperial Guards in Star Wars.

Because not even Halo 3 would have the budget of Star Wars Episode III.
 
OP
OP
S

Shadowen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Tutorial: The holotheaters on the moon (I don't know if they were actual holotheaters, but hey! they are now) have been commandeered, and Shepherd asks the Silencer for reports on his missions with the Resistance.  Why?  Because he's making a training ground.  The tutorial system is really a simulator.  The first mission of No Remorse, redone through the new game's engine, is at first the only mission available in the tutorial, and it's narrated by Shepherd.  For good performance in real missions, memorable missions of the past are added to the repertoire.

Divergence: The Silencer will have the option to leave the Resistance.  It is by no means mandatory.  He has two options: leaving the Resistance because he has become altogether too brutal and uncontrollable and they kick him out; or leaving them to rejoin the Silencers.  Returning to the Silencers ends up with a different mission track, as well as new toys (including assault armor).  Free of the considerations of the Resistance as a whole, but also from their supply chain and quartermasters, the Silencer who goes independent will have find ways to repair his armor personally or, perhaps, go without, using the black bodysuit and going on stealth-style missions.

Vehicles: There will always be missions, in all three tracks, where the Silencer can use vehicles.  One mission might call for escape by air through commandeering a gunship, in which the Silencer can either pilot, or (if others are with him) take up a gunnery seat.  Another could begin with a "Drive faster" segment, because it's impossible to teleport into a given facility (but not, hopefully, out).  And, of course, there's the delight of getting to drive a tank or mech through a more heavily-defended area.
 
OP
OP
S

Shadowen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Tactical Mode: Similar to the bullet-time in Max Payne, Tactical Mode is a bar that charges up.  When it's full, you can pause the game, zoom in, zoom out, rotate the camera, whatever.  Then, you can designate [10] seconds' worth of action on the part of the Silencer, including moves and designated targets, unpause, and it will go to a widescreen view and perform it flawlessly.  As the cinematic runs down, it will gradually return to fullscreen, and when it's fully back to fullscreen, control is returned.

Alternately, "Silencervision" is the ability to pause the game at any time, rotate the camera, zoom in, zoom out, etc.  You don't get to plan out an attack routine, though.
 
OP
OP
S

Shadowen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
It had occurred to me that a Silencer would not think or be aware of things in the way a soldier normally would, and some sort of system was needed to grant such considerations to players, who are after all only human, without just playing the game for them.
 
OP
OP
S

Shadowen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
I have mentioned three ways I can imagine the character going. I have included descriptions and links to the source of the names, so you get where I'm coming from.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
: There is a better way.  The killing is a cycle, and the only way to stop it is to stop killing.  Well, mostly.  Some idiots are always trying to ice-skate uphill.

The body politic is ill.  The bureaucracy is bloated; the fat must be cut away.  The muscles of the military flail uselessly; they must be stilled.  The skeleton of society, the worker classes, are crushed beneath the weight of it all; their burden must be relieved.  And the cause?  The head is poisoned; it needs some decisive surgery.

They--not the Resistance, but your brothers and sisters, fathers and mothers, the family you had forsaken--have a word, and that is coup.  Bloodless or not, supplanting the government and replacing its most vital members could achieve in one fell swoop what all the bombs in the world could not.  The machine isn't broken, after all; it's just being put to poor use...

And who better to run the machine than the finest men and women humanity has to offer?

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
: All that matters is the fight, and vengeance.  Ripping the WEC down, soldier by civilian by building, until nothing is left but ashes and converts.  Let the Resistance worry about the bigger picture, guide you like a ballistic missile.  You're more than happy to do their dirty work.  It's what you're built for.  And when it's over, they'll cast about to give you a medal for your bravery...but it's not bravery, and they used the services of a man they didn't understand.  With the task done and your fellows avenged, you are nothing, and you'll just fade away...

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
: When you get right down to it, the Resistance doesn't seem to be that effective.  They would have been crushed if not for the Silencer.  What's needed, then, is a better class of terrorist.  One who's very good at getting bombs in and would not be restricted by conscience in choice of targets.  The operative word is terror.  It's not even about the cause, so much as it is about the message being sent: you are not safe.

Of course, such haphazard, reckless, seemingly purposeless wholesale destruction would cause the Resistance to try to rein him in.  And they would fail.  Oh, how they would fail.

Now the Silencer is without support, but that's fine, because that means he gets to improvise, which is where he and his kind get dangerous.  Who would expect a small tactical nuke in a neighbourhood with no tactical significance whatsoever?  From the lore standpoint, this branch of gameplay would result in the most deaths, but the player would be stealthing most of the time to get bombs into play, rather than killing them in straight combat.  With minimal resources, he would be forced to conserve them, and make every hit count.

And he would.
 

Cyberion

Administrator
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
nice one. Roleplaying elements in Crusader game... man... that would be awesome! As always bro, very good and thinkful writing.
 
OP
OP
S

Shadowen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Just a quick thought.

Watching Dexter--which is about a serial killer who's the show's protagonist.  Specifically, he uses his insight into serial killers to track and kill other serial killers.  While a complete sociopath, he maintains a very polite, well-spoken, charismatic, charming facade over his blank inner self.  Good show.

Anyway, describing his sister's (who is a cop) vehemence over a serial killer targeting women, he muses that she puts up a wall because she doesn't want the world to see how vulnerable she is.  He compares that with himself, who puts up a wall because he doesn't want to see the world how vulnerable he's not.

Now, while the Silencer doesn't have a sister (
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
:p...), that phrase nonetheless defines the Silencer's interactions. He's a merciless, heartless, emotionless bastard sociopath who feels neither vulnerability nor fear, and that's what makes everyone scared of him.  They understand from his facial expressions or his body language that on some level this monster is not human.
 
OP
OP
S

Shadowen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
A thought.

I'd really like to have Mass Effect-style character generation.  That is, rather than making it a mystery what the Silencer looks like, you would be allowed to generate the appearance.  The ability to see the Silencer as an actual human would further underscore the inhumanity of his actions.  It's one thing to see a name, faceless, voiceless mook like a stormtrooper kill someone.  That's what they're for.  It's another for someone to do it and not even seem pleased.

Imagine seeing the Silencer coldly execute a civilian for being uncooperative, and not even a flinch, the facial expression remaining bored and detached like a bug had just been stepped on.  And realizing that's who you're playing.

And you're still the good guy.
 
OP
OP
S

Shadowen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Don't call it a comeback, I've been thinking about this for years...

Just finished Starcraft 2.  They had a really neat interface for that.  Between missions, you would be in the bar, and could click on people to talk to them, read messages, examine mementos, take missions, watch TV, and so on.  Then, after a few missions, you end up on Raynor's ship, the Hyperion, which has a Cantina, but also a Lab, an Armory, and a Bridge.

This felt strikingly similar to my idea for the Rebel base in a Crusader sequel, where the Silencer actually has something approximating quarters, and can go to the briefing room, the cantina, the armory (where he'd find both the quartermaster and, if he's in the game, Weasel), and so on.  It actually cuts back and forth, whereas I'd like to see it animated with him leaving and entering rooms (perhaps with a connective hallway), in a kind of nod to the previous games' bases, but maybe it's best to cut down on that sort of extraneous animation.

And another thought, lifted from reading Discworld.  ...know what?  I'll just quote it.  Mr. Gryle is a banshee, which on the Disc is the only sentient species to evolve flight.  There's a reason the story became that when you heard the cry of the banshee, it meant you were going to die.

'Reacher Gilt asked for me,' said Gryle. It was more a breath than a voice.

The clan of Igors had had any tendency to shuddering bred out of it generations ago, which was just as well. Igor felt uneasy in the presence of Gryle and his kind.

\"The marthter ith ekthpecting--\" he began.

But there was no one there.

It wasn't magic, and Gryle wasn't a vampire.  ...It was just that there was nothing spare about him--spare flesh, spare time, or spare words.  It was impossible to imagine Gryle collecting pins, or savouring wine or even throwing up after a bad pork pie.  The picture of him cleaning his teeth completely failed to form in the mind.  He gave the impression of restraining himself, with difficulty, from killing you.

...In his study, Reacher Gilt poured himself a small brandy. ...\"And for yourself?\" said Gilt.

\"Water,\" said Gryle.

\"I expect you know what this is about?\"

\"No.\"

... \"You know about the Post Office.\"

\"Yes.\"

\"How, may I ask?\"

\"There is talk.\"

Gilt accepted that.  Mr Gryle had a special talent, and if that came as a package with funny little ways then so be it.  Besides, he was trustworthy; a man without middle grounds.  He'd never blackmail you, because such an attempt would be the first move in a game that would almost certainly end in death for somebody; if Mr Gryle found himself in such a situation he'd kill right now, without further thought, in order to save time, and assumed that anyone else would, too. Presumably he was insane, by the usual human standards, but it was hard to tell; the phrase \"differently normal\" might do instead. ... He'd been a real find.

\"And you have discovered nothing about Mr Lipwig?\"

\"No. Father dead. Mother dead. Raised by grandfather. Sent away to school. Bullied. Ran away. Vanished,\" said the tall figure.

\"Hmm. I wonder where he's been all this time? Or who he has been?\"

Gryle didn't waste breath on rhetorical questions.

\"He is...a nuisance.\"

\"Understood.\" And that was the charm. Gryle did understand. He seldom needed an order, you just had to state the problem. The fact that it was Gryle you were stating it to went a long way towards ensuring what the solution was likely to be.

\"The Post Office building is old and full of paper. Very dry paper,\" said Gilt. \"It would be regrettable if the fine old place caught fire.\"

\"Understood.\" And that was another thing about Gryle. He really did not talk much. He especially did not talk about old times, and all the other little solutions he'd provided for Gilt over the years.

\"Require one thousand, three hundred dollars,\" he said.

\"Of course,\" said Gilt.

... \"Description,\" said Gryle.

\"No one seems to remember what he looks like,\" said Gilt, \"but he always wears a big golden hat, and he has an apartment in the building.\"

For a moment something flickered about Gryle's thin lips.  It was a smile panicking at finding itself in such an unfamiliar place.

... Gryle stood up. \"I will do this tonight,\" he said.

\"Good man.  Or, rather--\"

\"Understood.\"
If that couldn't do for the Silencer, I don't know what could.
 
OP
OP
S

Shadowen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
As you might have guessed, I haven't been directing as much thought towards Crusader as I used to.  Most of my recent "ideas" of whatever I most recently watched.

For example, after Iron Man 2, I had an idea for an...innovative mission.  I'd always wanted to include a mission in my hypothetical sequel where there was no goal but blow stuff up.  Your entire point is kind of an inverse of the "hold the line" missions from other games; you have to just keep hammering on these guys for X amount of time.  The reason is because the WEC is letting it be known through non-mass-media channels that wherever the rogue Silencer is, that's where something important is going down.

The Rebels notice this after a couple missions, and decide to exploit it.  First, they managed to air-drop the Silencer in, not unlike Iron Man's intro in 2, except he's not flying down, obviously.  He is, instead, airsurfing.  On a telepad.

Just before he would hit the building, the telepad is activated...which sends him to another facility entirely.  And then the telepad is destroyed with some sort of high explosive.  So it's a two-pronged feint, buying time for the Resistance to hit elsewhere while they're struggling to deal with a massive explosion and a walking nuke in two separate locations.

The point is, the air drop is kind of like the one at the start of MDK2, with you dodging flak and so on.
 
OP
OP
S

Shadowen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Going back to my idea for "alignment"...well, obviously, there wouldn't ben alignment.  There would, however, be different missions depending on your actions, which would eventually result in one of many endings.

How many? I'm thinking nine.  One for each of the old-school D&D alignments (Lawful Good, Neutral Good, Chaotic Good, Lawful Neutral, True Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil, Chaotic Evil).

With nine options, there are a lot of opportunities to tell whatever kind of story one might like.  For example, Chaotic Good would be good for the Silencer coming into his own, not as a living weapon, but as a person and an officer.  With the "chaotic good" ending, he would take the lead in tearing down the WEC while also trying to build the Resistance up into something resembling a government.

Lawful Neutral would be his simply following orders and helping the Resistance replace the WEC.  Perhaps he decides there's no place for himself or Silencers in this better world, and he's cryogenically frozen in case someone like him is needed in the future.

Neutral Evil could be him getting bored with vengeance and returning to the WEC, using his intel to wipe out the Resistance pretty thoroughly and sever all connection with a part of his life he's decided he wants to forget.  In return, once it's over he's allowed to disappear.  (The WEC naturally try to betray him.  It doesn't end well, but at least he stops killing people after awhile again.)

Lawful Evil would be re-defecting to join, not the WEC, but the Silencers, and through them decapitating the WEC and setting up themselves as a new quasi-benevolent oligarchy.

Chaotic Evil would be his disgust for other people and humanity as a whole breaking free, resulting in him attempting to burn all civilization to ashes.

The important thing is, each end should be a different goal the Silencer wants to achieve, and he achieves it.
 
OP
OP
S

Shadowen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
I just thought of an excellent sponsorship opportunity! And I'm surprised it took me so long.

Big Red gum.  I doubt they'd want to be conflated with the WEC, but maybe some billboards or wall ads in deathmatch maps.
 

Cyberion

Administrator
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
ehhh... sorry mate, didn't quite understand what you said here. Maybe it is some local stuff?  :p Could you explain a bit more?
 
Top Bottom